{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/rj48p5x61b/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Lorna Livingston"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/004/original/ISULogo.png?1601681107","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Livingston, Lorna (interviewee)","Belding, Michael (interviewer)","Iowa State University. Cyclone Marching Band (creator)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Iowa State University. Special Collections and University Archives"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eOral history interview conducted by Michael Belding with Lorna Livingston for the Cyclone Marching Band Oral History Project.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Marching bands (topical)","Iowa State University. Cyclone Marching Band (name)","Universities and colleges--Alumni and alumnae (topical)","Glockenspiel (topical)","Gender roles (topical)","World War (1939-1945) (topical)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2022-11-05"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["audio/mp3"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Sound","oral histories (literary genre)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eInterview with Lorna Livingston, Iowa State University. Cyclone Marching Band records, RS 13/17/3, Iowa State University Library Special Collections and University Archives. Please use this identifier to cite or link to this item: https://n2t.net/ark:/87292/w9ns0m50t\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThis item is protected by copyright and related rights. You are free to use this item in any way that is permitted by the copyright and related rights legislation that applies to your use. No permission is required for educational uses. For other uses, please obtain permission from Iowa State University Library Special Collections and University Archives. http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-EDU/1.0/\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1940s","Iowa--Ames"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["Iowa State University. Cyclone Marching Band records (RS 13/17/3)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["RS 13/17/3 (call number)","https://n2t.net/ark:/87292/w9ns0m50t (permalink)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eOral history interview conducted by Michael Belding with Lorna Livingston for the Cyclone Marching Band Oral History Project.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThis item is protected by copyright and related rights. You are free to use this item in any way that is permitted by the copyright and related rights legislation that applies to your use. No permission is required for educational uses. For other uses, please obtain permission from Iowa State University Library Special Collections and University Archives. http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC-EDU/1.0/\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Iowa State University"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Iowa State University"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/004/original/ISULogo.png?1601681107","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/254/527/small/Livingston_Lorna_thumbnail.jpg?1729177283","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Livingston_Lorna_audio_edited.mp3"]},"duration":2993.712,"width":640,"height":40,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/254/527/small/Livingston_Lorna_thumbnail.jpg?1729177283","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-iastate.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/254/527/original/Livingston_Lorna_audio_edited.mp3?1729177283","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2993.712,"width":640,"height":40},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Text [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lorna Livingston\r\nCyclone Marching Band Oral History Project \r\nInterviewed by Michael Belding\r\n2022-11-05  \r\nTime stamps reference the audio interview.\r\nMB: Michael Belding\r\nLL: Lorna Livingston","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=0.0,0.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: My name is Michael Belding. I am an interviewer for the Iowa State University Oral History Project in the Department of Special Collections at the University Library. Today is Saturday, November 5, 2022. I'm at the Harvest Room in the Gateway Hotel in Ames, Iowa, interviewing Lorna Livingston about her time as a student and in the marching band and Alumni Marching Band. Lorna, thank you for allowing me to interview you today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=0.0,44.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LL: You're welcome.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=44.0,45.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: I was wondering if we could begin by having you tell me a little bit about your early life, things like where you grew up, what your family was like, really anything you want to say about your time before college? \r\nLL: Well, I was born July 8, 1926, in Des Moines, Iowa. But we lived in Ames, my grandmother lived in Des Moines, so that's why we're there. We lived in Ames on a little three-room house. Dad was in graduate school. My father was Harley Wilhelm [Professor of Chemistry, known for establishing the Ames Laboratory and discovering a process of uranium production used in the first atomic bombs]. The three-room house, and this was Depression years. Our rent was three dollars a month. We had a living room, a kitchen, and a bedroom and the toilet in the basement, not a bathroom, just a toilet. But my grandfather took off part of the bedroom and made a bathroom for us. Nobody knew they were poor because everybody was in the same boat. \r\nI was the oldest of three siblings, three kids growing up, but when I was twelve, I got a little sister. We kind of were just playmates--not even playmates, I graduated from high school before she was even in school, so. We were--my brother and sister and I--were raised by parents, whereas little Gretchen was raised by grandparents. So, there was a difference between the way we were raised and the way she was raised. But as I say, it's how we became frugal. And to this day, I am very frugal, not cheap, frugal, because we learned how to make everything count. We grew all of our own vegetables in our backyard, and we had a cherry tree, we had two apple trees, two trees and a pear tree. Gooseberries, raspberries, and then [a] garden full of vegetables. We grew everything except corn because our back fence divided us between our personal property and the university's corn field. [laughs] So, we didn't have to grow corn. Anyway, but we ate what was what is now called organic food-- \r\nMB: Yes, everything was organic back then--\r\nLL: Everything was very organic, and we were very healthy. And my siblings and I are all still living. My dad and mom were in their nineties, but so was my great-grandfather. [laughs] But, we were healthy. And we're still pretty healthy, sort of. They get stuff that comes along, but--\r\nMB: You don't see a lot of gooseberries these days. \r\nLL: Gooseberries were in the bush. \r\nMB: Yes.\r\nLL: And you just need to make some jam with them. They weren't very good to eat; they just were sort of funny-looking. \r\nMB: Yes, they are. \r\nLL: But my grandmother had a cabin built with a lot of Des Moines people up in Park Rapids, near Park Rapids, Minnesota, and we’d go up there in the summertime for a week, maybe. And the blueberries were just everywhere, you could just sit in one spot and pick enough blueberries for a whole pie. Which I would do every weekend because after I was married and we moved to Minnesota, Minneapolis, that was halfway between Ames and Park Rapids, so we go up on the weekends and just--and I’d bake a blueberry pie every weekend, and it was wonderful. However, when I was taking care of my father his last five years, he loved pumpkin pie, so I baked a pumpkin pie for him for every weekend.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=45.0,355.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: So, how did you come to be a student at Iowa State? \r\nLL: How do you think if your dad's a—\r\n[talking over one another]\r\nMB: I can imagine, but – \r\nLL: I want to major in music. Iowa State did not have a music major. Dad, having been a Drake [Drake University] student, a graduate, which did have a music major, I said, “Well, I can go to Drake, which is your alma mater, or I can go to Iowa U [University of Iowa], which is the other state that has a music major.” I think they got a music major here not very long after I left, but it was too late for me. If they would have had one here, I would have taken it, whether Dad would have approved. Dad did not approve of a music major. He, being a scientist, said the first people to starve in bad times are artists and musicians. So, he did not want to support my majoring in music. \r\nSo, I majored in mathematics. Which I really enjoyed. But then I was halfway through college, and my counselor called me in, and she was very quick to inform me that the, the war was over--like nobody knew that. And the fact that that war was over, the GIs were all coming back. And I was majoring in mathematics, so she asked me if I was going to teach math. I said, “No.”\r\n“Well, what are you planning to do with your major?”\r\nI said, “Well, I thought I'd probably work for an insurance company.” This was before computers.\r\nShe says, “Well, you know, they're going to hire the GIs before they ever hire a woman. And as the men graduate, they will hire them, they will not hire a woman.” Which was true then. So, I had the change to Home Ec. [Home Economics] I'd always liked to sew as a kid. I made my first dress for myself when I was nine years old. I still have that dress.\r\nMB: Oh, really? \r\nLL: Yes. So, the obvious thing, she said I had to go to Home Ec. So, I thought, Well, I guess textiles and clothing makes he most sense for me. So that was my bachelor's degree, was in textiles and clothing. And to this day--I taught it for many years, as well as--I wasn’t going to be a teacher, but I ended up teaching adult education for Minneapolis public schools--but I will have to say that my major did help me a lot in those years. But now to walk down the street and to compare it to what I was taught, it just turns me over upside down. They did not have a class that was called “Torn Jeans.” [Belding laughs] But anyway, that was how I got to Iowa State. Dad said, “Well, go to Iowa State your first year and then we’ll talk about moving.” Well, then, “Finish junior college and then we'll think about it.” I still wanted to go to major in music somewhere. [Dad said,] “Well, you just have one year left. Okay, you might as well finish.” So, he just faked me through college. That's why I had no choice. My sister [Myrna Elliot] wanted to be a nurse, so she got to go away. My little sister Gretchen [Wilhelm, Mathematics (1956-1960)] majored in mathematics, but that's okay because it was okay by that time, by her age. My brother [Max Wilhelm, General Engineering (1948-1953)] was an engineer at Iowa State. The three of us were from here. One was a registered nurse, went to Broadlawns Hospital in Des Moines.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=355.0,637.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: What years exactly were you, a student? \r\nLL: I started the fall of 1944, and I graduated the spring of 1948.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=637.0,648.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: Were you in the marching band that entire time? \r\nLL: I was in the marching band all four years. And at the beginning, of course, there were a lot of women in the marching band, because the men were all in the war. But when the war ended, Alvin Edgar [Director of Bands (1936-1947)] did not want women in his marching band anymore, so he dismissed everybody that was a female--except the two bell players that were females. So, we--Helen [Helen Wesley] and I that were the two--the glockenspiel [instrument resembling a xylophone, but with steel bars] players, we marched at the front of the block, and the first home game of 1945. It was Saturday morning rehearsal. We marched out on the field, and then a loudspeaker introduced the “1945 one-hundred-twenty-piece all-male marching band.” And we were all in black uniforms with sort of like a policeman's cap. We were supposed to, when they introduced us, tip your cap. So, I said to Helen, “Let's skip the bobby pins this afternoon.” So, we did. And both of us had long, dark hair that went to our shoulders—and we're standing in front of the band, right in front of the whole of the audience. Well, you can imagine Mr. Edgar was not very happy. \r\nMB: So, you put your hair up under the hat – \r\nLL: With bobby pins. \r\nMB: And then you took the hat off, and the hair fell out? \r\nLL: We left the bobby pins out! That afternoon. So, when we took them off, then our hair came down. And so, everybody knew here were these two girls because men didn't have any long hair then. \r\nMB: No, not at that time. \r\nLL: So, then he called us in. We had to turn in our uniforms. And he was going to get two men to play glockenspiel. He advertised, he auditioned, he begged, he pleaded, he thought anybody that can play a keyboard, could play glockenspiel. Well, the difference was we had no music written for us. We had to play the b-flat cornet music. Which meant that we had to transpose it. And we could both sightread and transpose simultaneously. Then you had to memorize it because there was no way for us to carry the glockenspiel and music. She played string bass in the orchestra, and I played timpani in orchestra. But we both played bells in marching band--or glockenspiel, either, whatever you want to call it. He could not find a man that could transpose the music and--he couldn't find a man to take our place! So, he called us back in, and he was going to do us a favor. He was going to let us stay in the band if we would wear white drum major uniforms and march ahead of the block right behind the twirlers. Which we did. And we had to march in front of the block with white uniforms because the twirlers were white as well. But the block is in black. So, he still has his all-male marching band. Because now we're not part of it, we're just white [uniformed] bell players. \r\nAnd then in 1980, when they had the first Alumni Band reunion, I was there, and we had our name tags that told our names and the years that we were in the band. So, I had 1944-1948, and the head of the Music Department at that time--I think his name was Smith [Arthur Swift, head of the Music Department (1972-1992)]--he said, “What instrument did your husband play?”\r\nI said, “My husband played the radio.”\r\n“We didn't have women in the marching band in 1948.”\r\nI said, “You had two of us!” And so, I told him that story.\r\nHe said, “I always wondered, as long as Edgar was living, when we even had to order new uniforms for the marching band, the bell players had to be in at least white trousers.” \r\nMB: Wow. Even if they were men? \r\nLL: No, they were usually women. \r\nMB: Oh, they did remain women, usually? \r\nLL: But the bell players had to be in white. However, at Alumni Band reunion last night, I didn't even ask him if he had to wear white pants. There was an alumni there--and I don't know what year, but he had gray hair--and he said he had played bells in marching band for two years, and then he played cymbals the last two years. But I didn’t ask him if he had to wear white pants. Well, no, it probably was after Edgar had died. Edgar died at probably--I saw him at my mom and dad's fiftieth anniversary, which would have been twenty-five in the seventies, so he must have died in the seventies, late seventies","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=648.0,1975.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"--Edgar. Then, I think, probably the band became--I think they let women in by that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1975.0,4670.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: Who was Helen? \r\nLL: Helen Wesley, she married the drum major who was Jim Wesley. \r\nMB: Was she the same age as you? \r\nLL: She was a year behind me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=4670.0,4695.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: How did you balance being in the band, on the one hand, with your academics and everything else going on, on other hand? \r\nLL: Oh, I was--nothing’s going to take the place of band. I was in band, and orchestra, and marching band, and glee club. Everything music, I was there--and I was also one of the YWCA [Young Women’s Christian Association, a nonprofit focusing on women’s empowerment and leadership] trio. So, everything music, because that was what I wanted. Then after I had to switch to Home Ec, I still wanted to graduate with my class, so I was carrying up to forty-two hours. I was going to school from seven in the morning until ten at night, but I always had time for band. \r\nMB: It's amazing how we make time for the things that we love. \r\nLL: Yes, you just have to budget your way around. I probably would have done better scholastically if I'd spent more time studying.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=4695.0,4767.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: Yes. So, when and where did the marching band practice at that time? \r\nLL: My first year, we practiced in the auditorium at Landscape Architecture just north of Dairy Building. And then we moved to--it was, I don’t know what the building was for, but was at that time, it was across the street from the tennis courts, about a block north of the men’s gym, the big gym. I don't know what the name of the building was, but that's where we rehearse the rest of the time. \r\nWe were there the morning that two of the sailors--of course, you know, the Navy was at Iowa State--and when two of the band players that were navy boys were late one morning coming into band, which made Edgar pretty mad. So, he made a big--he said, “Why are you here late?”\r\nAnd they said, We had to lower the flag. \r\n“What for?”\r\nRoosevelt just died. \r\nAnd, so he [Alvin Edgar] hit his forehead, and he said, “Oh my God, that means Truman’s president.” [both laugh] That was April of ’45. Then Truman was the one who ended up getting the atom bomb. For which Dad was quite responsible. And at one of Dad's high school reunions, one of the fellows said, “Don't you feel guilty about having done that atomic energy thing?”\r\nAnd he said, “It put the world at peace. And saved many, many lives.” But Dad’s whole idea was, he knew atomic energy had far more benefits than what they--he saw it in agriculture, in medicine, in energy, as well as defense. He said it was just terribly unfortunate that it was introduced negatively.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=4767.0,4918.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: So, how often did the band rehearse, and how long were rehearsals? \r\nLL: Every morning before classes. And, of course, we rehearsed marching, too. Whatever, either way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=4918.0,4937.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: How much time did you have to prepare each set list? \r\nLL: Well, usually each class is usually about an hour long.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=4937.0,4952.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: Were there any especially memorable shows you played, whether at a specific game or a specific concert, does anything really stick out? \r\nLL: No, not really. One big difference then from the one of the bands that I play in now--I play in six concert bands up until COVID hit the fan--and one of the bands I play in is a college band. In that band, they have about a dozen to fourteen seniors that come regularly to play in the different sections that inspire the students, help them and let them realize that you're not through with music when you graduate from college. Well, back in my Iowa State days, we only had one senior, and that was Ilza Niemack [Concertmistress with the Iowa State Symphony, Department of Music faculty (1935-1973)]--she would play the violin, first-chair violin. One day at rehearsal--she had one piece she was going to be featured in on one of our concert tours, and he [Mr. Edgar] said, “Now we’ll rehearse that one.”\r\nAnd she said, “No, we can't rehearse that one today.”\r\nAnd he said, “Why not?”\r\nShe said, “I brought the wrong violin.” \r\n“Well, we’ll rehearse it anyway.” And they did it. You wouldn't have known it was the same piece. The difference between a Stradivarius and an ordinary, everyday, violin is quite obvious. And he said, “I don't want any of you to use the excuse that it's your instrument, now!” Because you could tell the difference there between her good violin and her not-so-good violin. And we also had one girl who was, I think, a class or two ahead of me. Her name was Jean Porth [Household Equipment (1945)], and she played trumpet, but she could triple tongue. Therefore, he used her as a concert soloist, as much as it bothered him to have a woman playing trumpet. Women, in his opinion, were only supposed to play violin. He did not want them to play percussion either. In fact, he told me in the beginning, being a woman in percussion, he said, “I wish you would just walk out of here and stay,” just because women don't belong in percussion. That's all he needed to stay for me to say for sure. By the time I graduated my senior year, we were going on concert tour, and he was only able to take five percussionists, and we had fourteen. So, we had to sign up for roommates. Well, I didn't sign up for my roommate because I knew out of fourteen, he’s not going to take a woman. So, I didn't sign up. He called me in. And he said, “You said you didn't sign up for a roommate.” \r\nI said, “No. You said you were only going to take five of us.”\r\nHe said, “That's right, but you're one of the five.”\r\nI said, “I am? Why?”\r\nHe said, “You can play all of the instruments and nobody else can.” \r\nI said, “Well, I'm sorry, I’ve already made other plans for the day.” It was on spring break. So, I didn't go on that tour with them. \r\nHe said, “But after this, you can play in any of my bands any time.” He gone a whole hundred and eighty degrees from the time I was a freshman to the time I graduated, even though I was a girl in percussion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=4952.0,5216.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: So, you have talked a lot about the director of the band up to now. What was the culture of the band as a group, like with the students and everything--what was the band members’ culture with each other? \r\nLL: Well, I don't know, you know, pretty much the navy guys, and even the ones that were still in the navy when the war was out, most of them came back as civilians and finished on the GI Bill here at Iowa State. A lot of them I knew, but there were a lot of them in the band as well. So, I didn’t do a lot of socializing with them. I didn't do much out of band with social--I was a town girl! The girls in the dorms had their friends, and the ones in the sororities and fraternities had their friends. I just had my Ames friends. \r\nMB: Yes, it's a little different when you go up around here. Like I said, I grew up in Story City, which is quite nearby, and so I didn't socialize a lot with--\r\nLL: Just the ones you grew up with pretty much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=5216.0,5296.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: So, when you were in the band--at any point when you were in the band--did you ever receive any advice from fellow band members on any of this stuff? Advice about playing your instrument? Advice about managing difficulties with Edgar, anything? \r\nLL: No, I learned timpani when I was in high school. And as far as college was concerned, there were only two or three of us that played timpani, and we just took turns. I played bass drum sometimes. I never played snare drum, because when I was in high school one of our fellow high school snare drum players was the state snare drum champion. I did not need to compete with that person. But it was one of my high school--I played accordion in marching band in high school to begin with--and he used it in marching band to start with--but then he wanted me to play timpani and then glockenspiel. So that was okay. \r\nMB: That was the high school band? \r\nLL: Ames High. One of the percussionists in the Ames High Concert Band that taught me timpani. No director ever did. It was just this fellow band member. When he told me that for concert band I wasn't going to play accordion, he said, “Would you like to play timpani?”\r\nI said, “I don't even know what it is.” \r\n“I'll show you.” He took me back in the corner. \r\n“I thought these were called kettledrums.”\r\n“Well, that's the old name for them.” So, I didn't know any more about it than that. But I fell in love with them, and that's what I've been playing. Well, I did have a hiatus for fifty-two years without any band because my husband objected to my being in bands, but when he went into the nursing home, it only took me two days to get back in a band. But I went in as a timpanist. And bell players when they needed them, but I never marched again—there! I march in Alumni Band every year up until about, what, three years ago? Four years ago? No, because--COVID was in there. Anyway, lately. [laughs]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=5296.0,5464.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: Okay. Did you pass any advice on to incoming band members, like when you were a junior or senior? \r\nLL: No. I had retired now from concert bands, and the person who is taking my place, I'm teaching her, she's been taking timpani lessons from me for about two or three years. So that she's going to take over now--or will. I retired first of June, and I won't be teaching adult education anymore, nor will I be playing in any bands anymore. Time to hang up the fun. \r\nMB: Time to give up the mallet. \r\nLL: Huh? \r\nMB: Give up the mallet, the hammer, or whatever. \r\nLL: I donated my glockenspiel, mallet, and the holster to Iowa State last night. And I told the director, I said, “Even though they play the horizontal bells now, over the years, there have been Alumni Band members who have played glockenspiel that might want to play again, and now you have one for them to play.” And I found one last night that did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=5464.0,5558.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: Good. So, what did the marching band mean to you while you were a student? \r\nLL: A thrill. It was just a thrill. Just loved it. It’s just fun. I don't like to just listen to music, I like to be playing it. And when you march into the football stadium, through all of those tailgaters and everybody's clapping and you're playing, and I am in my seventh heaven, I just am thrilled. I get home, my son was home from college and--he was at the Air Force Academy, he had a break--I walked in the living room, and he was there and I said, “I just put my glock [glockenspiel] on--I’m just thrilled to pieces!” I was still just as happy when I got home as I was marching. It was just glorious. I loved it. And it bothers me that I can't do it, but on the other hand, I know I can’t. It bothers me, I can't do a lot of things, but, you know, you just can't do it forever, unfortunately.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=5558.0,5652.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: So that thrill's stayed with you even when you were in the Alumni Band? \r\nLL: Oh, through my Alumni Band. Yes, that was it. All through Alumni Band. All the time we were marching to the stadium, that was--all my thrills has been Alumni Band. In high school it was just--and college--it was just part of the game. But Alumni Band is a thrill.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=5652.0,5680.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: Yes. So, when did the Alumni Band begin? \r\nLL: Nineteen eighty.\r\nMB: And you were involved--you said you went to the first one?\r\nLL: I’ve been to every one of them since. \r\nMB: What-- \r\nLL: I'm one of only seven people that have been to every one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=5680.0,5707.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: What roles have you had in the in the Alumni Band? I see that you were past president-- \r\nLL: I was president. Well, I guess you were-what did they call it. I didn't know I was going to be president. They asked me if I would be whatever--he had a funny name for it, and I said, “Yes, well, I guess. What do you have to do?”\r\nHe said, “Oh, not much. Just be there to help if we need you.” So, I thought, Okay. Then the next year, they said, And our new president is Lorna Wilhelm. I thought, Well, Livingston. And I said, “How come?”\r\n“Well, that's what that leads to.”\r\n“You didn't tell me that.” But then I got it from Bill Reinhardt [William Reinhardt, Civil Engineering (1944-1948)], and then I passed it on to LaVonne [LaVonne (Salton) Anderson, Psychology (1973-1977)].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=5707.0,5767.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: How has the Alumni Band changed since 1980? \r\nLL: Certainly, got larger! \r\nMB: Yes, it was a very large group at lunch today. \r\nLL: Yes, well, at one time, we had over three hundred on the field. And I was real, very, happy to see Roger Cichy [Marching Band Director (1986-1995)] this time he was--Mr. Christensen [Joseph Christensen, Director of Bands (1980-1998)] was probably the best band director that we had up until--well, the only one I had for marching band that I had, and anything was better than Edgar, in my opinion, because it was his personality that bothered me. But Joe Christensen was a wonderful guy, and he was nationally famous as well, and died very unexpectedly. But Roger Cichy was also one of the directors with Joe Christiansen, and he left Iowa State not long after Joe died. Because he wanted to be a full-time composer, which is what he did. And I hadn't seen him. Now he came last night, he came today! And I was so surprised to see him. And I said, “What brought you here?”\r\nHe said, “A band reunion.” [laughs] So, he had some desire to come back again, and fortunately, I was able to come, and I got to see him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=5767.0,5892.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: So thinking back to when you were a student, did the marching band at that time have any traditions? \r\nLL: Have what? \r\nMB: Any traditions, any rituals it would do like before games, or after, or anything like that? \r\nLL: Not particularly. We just marched on the field and then did our halftime performance. \r\nBut then—yes, we didn't do what Alumni Band, you know, has a roving band [band that moves around the bleachers in the stadium], third quarter--I don't know if they do that anymore or not, but I was in roving band for a long, long, time. And, and that was Alumni Band, and that was that Iowa State. In high school, we didn't rove between quarters. We did our halftime performance and that was all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=5892.0,5948.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: So, when you were a student, you would have been playing in the old stadium [Clyde Williams Field] by Friley Hall, right? \r\nLL: Yes. \r\nMB: And, of course, in the Alumni Band, you play at Jack Trice. \r\nLL: Right, here. Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=5948.0,5964.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: How is it different? \r\n[talking over each other]\r\nLL: We were over there at the old gym [Old State Gym] when the bobby pins happened [referring to event mentioned earlier in transcript, timestamp 00:10:48]. And, of course, that was during the war and after. And of course, then all the years in between, that's when--fifty-two years, I didn't have a mallet in my hand-- well, in between, everything moved to over here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=5964.0,6001.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: How did the experience of playing in the stadium change after Jack Trice was built? \r\nLL: I didn't feel much different. Still, you're moving on, marching onto a football field.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=6001.0,6065.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: Now, since you've talked about being one of the only women in the band and being unwanted as a woman in the band, and Edgar’s--I forget his last name [last name Edgar, first name Alvin]--Edgar's personality and his general attitude toward women, I think-- \r\nLL: I have to say, his daughter Joyce, who was a year younger than I, played trumpet. But Margaret, who was three years younger, played violin. Well, guess which was his favorite daughter. \r\nMB: The violinist. \r\nLL: I won't go any further.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=6065.0,6105.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: So, I think, you know, someone might hear you talk about this experience and think of you as a feminist, is that how you think of yourself? \r\nLL: But, you know, I didn't-- \r\nMB: Like was that in your head at this time? \r\nLL: Yes, because I remember at that time, you know, we played basketball, but the girls could only play in half the court. \r\nMB: Yes, it was still like three-on-three. \r\nLL: You had your defense here and the offense there. And, Ames High never played other schools, and other schools in town, they had a boys basketball tournament and a girls basketball tournament. I said, “Why doesn’t Ames High get to?” And I never knew the answer why, but it was little towns, Strawberry Point [Iowa] or whatever, that would play in a tournament. Small schools, but for some reason, Ames High never did. I never knew why. But I never considered myself as a feminist. I just felt like we were deprived of having the opportunities that I felt we should have. But I never did anything to find it. The bobby pin story was not to be a feminist, it was just to show that's not true. It wasn't because I was trying to start anything, and yet that was the way it ended up.\r\nMB: Being a historian myself, it's one of the things I have to remember as I'm reading documents, and that sort of thing, is thinking about what the person wanted to do when they wrote this down as opposed to what ended up happening. So, I thought I would ask because sometimes, things take on a life of their own or get carried away. \r\nLL: You don't have the intention of doing anything that ends up being--and sometimes are interpreted entirely wrong for the wrong reasons, which sometimes leads negatively. Maybe sometimes positively. I would say that the bobby pins story ended up positively, even though I didn't have that intention.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=6105.0,6268.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: Is there anything else you would like to talk about today? Is there is there any question I should have asked you but didn't? \r\nLL: I don't think I know, what would the answer would be? I haven't thought about it. I didn't even know what you're going to talk to me about. \r\nMB: Yes, I guess we were a little unclear on it. \r\nLL: I get so much about my dad that to have anything about me, who was not famous, and he was, I think, Why do they want to talk to me? It must be more questions about Dad, than me, because I'm not--I haven't done anything different. I've had, now where I'm at this end, I've had three different programs that were in my honors. I never where I never knew about any of them until after it happened. It was all a surprise to me. “Be sure you come. Be sure to come.”\r\n“Well, yes. Maybe,” is my attitude. And, in fact, that it even happened last May. I got-- probably a month ahead of time, probably in April some time--I got an ad, you might say, from Iowa State that there was going to be a get together for Iowa State graduates that live in Minnesota, and it was going to be at some place. I looked it up as downtown Minneapolis. I thought, I'm not interested. But I did put it in my calendar book for that day. Then, about maybe a week ahead, we got an e-mail then reminding us to sign up or register, and I looked up where it was, and I thought, downtown Minneapolis, no. I still had no intention of going. Well to make a long story short--with me with no intention of going--I got a call that morning from Iowa State saying, “We have made the reservation for you for tonight.” I hadn't even planned to go, so I had to quick get myself clothes lined up, and get my hair done, and figure out how I was going to get there. And it turned out--I drove--if I got up on Hennepin, I could get down there across the river, was one block. It ended up being all construction downtown, all one-ways, the wrong one-way. Took me an hour to do what could have taken me twenty-five minutes. I get to a half a block from where this new building is that they're having this event, and it's blocked off. I went around the block, I couldn't get in. I sat there for a while contemplating, What am I supposed to do? A pedestrian went by, I said, “I'm supposed to go to a meeting down there, and I can't even get in!” \r\nThey said, “Oh, move them, that's for flooding further on down.” So, I drove in. Welcome Iowa State – complimentary valet parking. And I went in, and I plopped down in a place close to the podium so I could hear good. Eventually, President Wendy [Wendy Wintersteen, 16th president of Iowa State) walked in. I had met her before, so she knew who I was--primarily as Dad’s daughter--and we were chatting. Then she went over and got the woman who was head of Textiles and Clothing and brought her over, and introduced her to her. Then she got the gal that was the MC that day, brought her over, introduced me to her. Then she brought a fellow from the Minneapolis Foundation and introduced them. I already knew him. I go, “What are you bringing all these people over here for?” I didn’t know why was she bringing all these people to introduce to me! And it wasn't until Wendy got up to speak, and she said, “You know, our subject today was—\" what, innovating, inventions, or whatever it was. Says, “You all know--whatever the name was--therefore, you are familiar with Harley Wilhelm, and thank you, Lorna, for coming today, his daughter.” That's why they had me there and I didn't know until that minute why I was there! See it's not me, usually.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=6268.0,6568.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/71873/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MB: Yes. Well, thank you for sitting down with me, telling me all of this. It's really great to hear it and to be able to record it and make it available for other people as well.  \r\nLL: Well, to think that you're doing something for me is amazing to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=6568.0,2993.712"}]},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Livingston_Lorna_transcript_Final.vtt [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMichael Belding:\u003c/strong\u003e My name is Michael Belding. I am an interviewer for the Iowa State University Oral History Project in the Department of Special Collections at the University Library. Today is Saturday, November 5, 2022. I'm at the Harvest Room in the Gateway Hotel in Ames, Iowa, interviewing Lorna Livingston about her time as a student and in the marching band and Alumni Marching Band. Lorna, thank you for allowing me to interview you today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=0.0,44.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLorna Livingston:\u003c/strong\u003e You're welcome.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=44.0,45.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e I was wondering if we could begin by having you tell me a little bit about your early life, things like where you grew up, what your family was like, really anything you want to say about your time before college? LL: Well, I was born July 8, 1926, in Des Moines, Iowa. But we lived in Ames, my grandmother lived in Des Moines, so that's why we're there. We lived in Ames on a little three-room house. Dad was in graduate school. My father was Harley Wilhelm [Professor of Chemistry, known for establishing the Ames Laboratory and discovering a process of uranium production used in the first atomic bombs]. The three-room house, and this was Depression years. Our rent was three dollars a month. We had a living room, a kitchen, and a bedroom and the toilet in the basement, not a bathroom, just a toilet. But my grandfather took off part of the bedroom and made a bathroom for us. Nobody knew they were poor because everybody was in the same boat. I was the oldest of three siblings, three kids growing up, but when I was twelve, I got a little sister. We kind of were just playmates--not even playmates, I graduated from high school before she was even in school, so. We were--my brother and sister and I--were raised by parents, whereas little Gretchen was raised by grandparents. So, there was a difference between the way we were raised and the way she was raised. But as I say, it's how we became frugal. And to this day, I am very frugal, not cheap, frugal, because we learned how to make everything count. We grew all of our own vegetables in our backyard, and we had a cherry tree, we had two apple trees, two trees and a pear tree. Gooseberries, raspberries, and then [a] garden full of vegetables. We grew everything except corn because our back fence divided us between our personal property and the university's corn field. [laughs] So, we didn't have to grow corn. Anyway, but we ate what was what is now called organic food-- MB: Yes, everything was organic back then-- LL: Everything was very organic, and we were very healthy. And my siblings and I are all still living. My dad and mom were in their nineties, but so was my great-grandfather. [laughs] But, we were healthy. And we're still pretty healthy, sort of. They get stuff that comes along, but-- MB: You don't see a lot of gooseberries these days. LL: Gooseberries were in the bush. MB: Yes. LL: And you just need to make some jam with them. They weren't very good to eat; they just were sort of funny-looking. MB: Yes, they are. LL: But my grandmother had a cabin built with a lot of Des Moines people up in Park Rapids, near Park Rapids, Minnesota, and we’d go up there in the summertime for a week, maybe. And the blueberries were just everywhere, you could just sit in one spot and pick enough blueberries for a whole pie. Which I would do every weekend because after I was married and we moved to Minnesota, Minneapolis, that was halfway between Ames and Park Rapids, so we go up on the weekends and just--and I’d bake a blueberry pie every weekend, and it was wonderful. However, when I was taking care of my father his last five years, he loved pumpkin pie, so I baked a pumpkin pie for him for every weekend.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=45.0,355.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e So, how did you come to be a student at Iowa State? LL: How do you think if your dad's a— [talking over one another] MB: I can imagine, but – LL: I want to major in music. Iowa State did not have a music major. Dad, having been a Drake [Drake University] student, a graduate, which did have a music major, I said, “Well, I can go to Drake, which is your alma mater, or I can go to Iowa U [University of Iowa], which is the other state that has a music major.” I think they got a music major here not very long after I left, but it was too late for me. If they would have had one here, I would have taken it, whether Dad would have approved. Dad did not approve of a music major. He, being a scientist, said the first people to starve in bad times are artists and musicians. So, he did not want to support my majoring in music. So, I majored in mathematics. Which I really enjoyed. But then I was halfway through college, and my counselor called me in, and she was very quick to inform me that the, the war was over--like nobody knew that. And the fact that that war was over, the GIs were all coming back. And I was majoring in mathematics, so she asked me if I was going to teach math. I said, “No.” “Well, what are you planning to do with your major?” I said, “Well, I thought I'd probably work for an insurance company.” This was before computers. She says, “Well, you know, they're going to hire the GIs before they ever hire a woman. And as the men graduate, they will hire them, they will not hire a woman.” Which was true then. So, I had the change to Home Ec. [Home Economics] I'd always liked to sew as a kid. I made my first dress for myself when I was nine years old. I still have that dress. MB: Oh, really? LL: Yes. So, the obvious thing, she said I had to go to Home Ec. So, I thought, Well, I guess textiles and clothing makes he most sense for me. So that was my bachelor's degree, was in textiles and clothing. And to this day--I taught it for many years, as well as--I wasn’t going to be a teacher, but I ended up teaching adult education for Minneapolis public schools--but I will have to say that my major did help me a lot in those years. But now to walk down the street and to compare it to what I was taught, it just turns me over upside down. They did not have a class that was called “Torn Jeans.” [Belding laughs] But anyway, that was how I got to Iowa State. Dad said, “Well, go to Iowa State your first year and then we’ll talk about moving.” Well, then, “Finish junior college and then we'll think about it.” I still wanted to go to major in music somewhere. [Dad said,] “Well, you just have one year left. Okay, you might as well finish.” So, he just faked me through college. That's why I had no choice. My sister [Myrna Elliot] wanted to be a nurse, so she got to go away. My little sister Gretchen [Wilhelm, Mathematics (1956-1960)] majored in mathematics, but that's okay because it was okay by that time, by her age. My brother [Max Wilhelm, General Engineering (1948-1953)] was an engineer at Iowa State. The three of us were from here. One was a registered nurse, went to Broadlawns Hospital in Des Moines.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=355.0,637.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e What years exactly were you, a student? LL: I started the fall of 1944, and I graduated the spring of 1948.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=637.0,648.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e Were you in the marching band that entire time? LL: I was in the marching band all four years. And at the beginning, of course, there were a lot of women in the marching band, because the men were all in the war. But when the war ended, Alvin Edgar [Director of Bands (1936-1947)] did not want women in his marching band anymore, so he dismissed everybody that was a female--except the two bell players that were females. So, we--Helen [Helen Wesley] and I that were the two--the glockenspiel [instrument resembling a xylophone, but with steel bars] players, we marched at the front of the block, and the first home game of 1945. It was Saturday morning rehearsal. We marched out on the field, and then a loudspeaker introduced the “1945 one-hundred-twenty-piece all-male marching band.” And we were all in black uniforms with sort of like a policeman's cap. We were supposed to, when they introduced us, tip your cap. So, I said to Helen, “Let's skip the bobby pins this afternoon.” So, we did. And both of us had long, dark hair that went to our shoulders—and we're standing in front of the band, right in front of the whole of the audience. Well, you can imagine Mr. Edgar was not very happy. MB: So, you put your hair up under the hat – ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=648.0,765.59803"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: With bobby pins. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=765.59803,768.19531"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e MB: And then you took the hat off, and the hair fell out? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=768.19531,775.34013"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: We left the bobby pins out! That afternoon. So, when we took them off, then our hair came down. And so, everybody knew here were these two girls because men didn't have any long hair then. MB: No, not at that time. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=775.34013,797.28492"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: So, then he called us in. We had to turn in our uniforms. And he was going to get two men to play glockenspiel. He advertised, he auditioned, he begged, he pleaded, he thought anybody that can play a keyboard, could play glockenspiel. Well, the difference was we had no music written for us. We had to play the b-flat cornet music. Which meant that we had to transpose it. And we could both sightread and transpose simultaneously. Then you had to memorize it because there was no way for us to carry the glockenspiel and music. She played string bass in the orchestra, and I played timpani in orchestra. But we both played bells in marching band--or glockenspiel, either, whatever you want to call it. He could not find a man that could transpose the music and--he couldn't find a man to take our place! So, he called us back in, and he was going to do us a favor. He was going to let us stay in the band if we would wear white drum major uniforms and march ahead of the block right behind the twirlers. Which we did. And we had to march in front of the block with white uniforms because the twirlers were white as well. But the block is in black. So, he still has his all-male marching band. Because now we're not part of it, we're just white [uniformed] bell players. And then in 1980, when they had the first Alumni Band reunion, I was there, and we had our name tags that told our names and the years that we were in the band. So, I had 1944-1948, and the head of the Music Department at that time--I think his name was Smith [Arthur Swift, head of the Music Department (1972-1992)]--he said, “What instrument did your husband play?” I said, “My husband played the radio.” “We didn't have women in the marching band in 1948.” I said, “You had two of us!” And so, I told him that story. He said, “I always wondered, as long as Edgar was living, when we even had to order new uniforms for the marching band, the bell players had to be in at least white trousers.” ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=797.28492,991.1926"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e MB: Wow. Even if they were men? LL: No, they were usually women. MB: Oh, they did remain women, usually? LL: But the bell players had to be in white. However, at Alumni Band reunion last night, I didn't even ask him if he had to wear white pants. There was an alumni there--and I don't know what year, but he had gray hair--and he said he had played bells in marching band for two years, and then he played cymbals the last two years. But I didn’t ask him if he had to wear white pants. Well, no, it probably was after Edgar had died. Edgar died at probably--I saw him at my mom and dad's fiftieth anniversary, which would have been twenty-five in the seventies, so he must have died in the seventies, late seventies [1975]--Edgar. Then, I think, probably the band became--I think they let women in by that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=991.1926,1070.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e Who was Helen? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1070.0,1073.33333"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: Helen Wesley, she married the drum major who was Jim Wesley. MB: Was she the same age as you? LL: She was a year behind me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1073.33333,1095.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e How did you balance being in the band, on the one hand, with your academics and everything else going on, on other hand? LL: Oh, I was--nothing’s going to take the place of band. I was in band, and orchestra, and marching band, and glee club. Everything music, I was there--and I was also one of the YWCA [Young Women’s Christian Association, a nonprofit focusing on women’s empowerment and leadership] trio. So, everything music, because that was what I wanted. Then after I had to switch to Home Ec, I still wanted to graduate with my class, so I was carrying up to forty-two hours. I was going to school from seven in the morning until ten at night, but I always had time for band. MB: It's amazing how we make time for the things that we love. LL: Yes, you just have to budget your way around. I probably would have done better scholastically if I'd spent more time studying.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1095.0,1167.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. So, when and where did the marching band practice at that time? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1167.0,1174.65942"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: My first year, we practiced in the auditorium at Landscape Architecture just north of Dairy Building. And then we moved to--it was, I don’t know what the building was for, but was at that time, it was across the street from the tennis courts, about a block north of the men’s gym, the big gym. I don't know what the name of the building was, but that's where we rehearse the rest of the time. We were there the morning that two of the sailors--of course, you know, the Navy was at Iowa State--and when two of the band players that were navy boys were late one morning coming into band, which made Edgar pretty mad. So, he made a big--he said, “Why are you here late?” And they said, We had to lower the flag. “What for?” Roosevelt just died. And, so he [Alvin Edgar] hit his forehead, and he said, “Oh my God, that means Truman’s president.” [both laugh] That was April of ’45. Then Truman was the one who ended up getting the atom bomb. For which Dad was quite responsible. And at one of Dad's high school reunions, one of the fellows said, “Don't you feel guilty about having done that atomic energy thing?” And he said, “It put the world at peace. And saved many, many lives.” But Dad’s whole idea was, he knew atomic energy had far more benefits than what they--he saw it in agriculture, in medicine, in energy, as well as defense. He said it was just terribly unfortunate that it was introduced negatively.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1174.65942,1318.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e So, how often did the band rehearse, and how long were rehearsals? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1318.0,1327.14815"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: Every morning before classes. And, of course, we rehearsed marching, too. Whatever, either way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1327.14815,1337.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e How much time did you have to prepare each set list? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1337.0,1345.18182"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: Well, usually each class is usually about an hour long.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1345.18182,1352.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e Were there any especially memorable shows you played, whether at a specific game or a specific concert, does anything really stick out? LL: No, not really. One big difference then from the one of the bands that I play in now--I play in six concert bands up until COVID hit the fan--and one of the bands I play in is a college band. In that band, they have about a dozen to fourteen seniors that come regularly to play in the different sections that inspire the students, help them and let them realize that you're not through with music when you graduate from college. Well, back in my Iowa State days, we only had one senior, and that was Ilza Niemack [Concertmistress with the Iowa State Symphony, Department of Music faculty (1935-1973)]--she would play the violin, first-chair violin. One day at rehearsal--she had one piece she was going to be featured in on one of our concert tours, and he [Mr. Edgar] said, “Now we’ll rehearse that one.” And she said, “No, we can't rehearse that one today.” And he said, “Why not?” She said, “I brought the wrong violin.” “Well, we’ll rehearse it anyway.” And they did it. You wouldn't have known it was the same piece. The difference between a Stradivarius and an ordinary, everyday, violin is quite obvious. And he said, “I don't want any of you to use the excuse that it's your instrument, now!” Because you could tell the difference there between her good violin and her not-so-good violin. And we also had one girl who was, I think, a class or two ahead of me. Her name was Jean Porth [Household Equipment (1945)], and she played trumpet, but she could triple tongue. Therefore, he used her as a concert soloist, as much as it bothered him to have a woman playing trumpet. Women, in his opinion, were only supposed to play violin. He did not want them to play percussion either. In fact, he told me in the beginning, being a woman in percussion, he said, “I wish you would just walk out of here and stay,” just because women don't belong in percussion. That's all he needed to stay for me to say for sure. By the time I graduated my senior year, we were going on concert tour, and he was only able to take five percussionists, and we had fourteen. So, we had to sign up for roommates. Well, I didn't sign up for my roommate because I knew out of fourteen, he’s not going to take a woman. So, I didn't sign up. He called me in. And he said, “You said you didn't sign up for a roommate.” I said, “No. You said you were only going to take five of us.” He said, “That's right, but you're one of the five.” I said, “I am? Why?” He said, “You can play all of the instruments and nobody else can.” I said, “Well, I'm sorry, I’ve already made other plans for the day.” It was on spring break. So, I didn't go on that tour with them. He said, “But after this, you can play in any of my bands any time.” He gone a whole hundred and eighty degrees from the time I was a freshman to the time I graduated, even though I was a girl in percussion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1352.0,1616.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e So, you have talked a lot about the director of the band up to now. What was the culture of the band as a group, like with the students and everything--what was the band members’ culture with each other? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1616.0,1632.66667"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: Well, I don't know, you know, pretty much the navy guys, and even the ones that were still in the navy when the war was out, most of them came back as civilians and finished on the GI Bill here at Iowa State. A lot of them I knew, but there were a lot of them in the band as well. So, I didn’t do a lot of socializing with them. I didn't do much out of band with social--I was a town girl! The girls in the dorms had their friends, and the ones in the sororities and fraternities had their friends. I just had my Ames friends. MB: Yes, it's a little different when you go up around here. Like I said, I grew up in Story City, which is quite nearby, and so I didn't socialize a lot with-- LL: Just the ones you grew up with pretty much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1632.66667,1696.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e So, when you were in the band--at any point when you were in the band--did you ever receive any advice from fellow band members on any of this stuff? Advice about playing your instrument? Advice about managing difficulties with Edgar, anything? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1696.0,1715.87606"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: No, I learned timpani when I was in high school. And as far as college was concerned, there were only two or three of us that played timpani, and we just took turns. I played bass drum sometimes. I never played snare drum, because when I was in high school one of our fellow high school snare drum players was the state snare drum champion. I did not need to compete with that person. But it was one of my high school--I played accordion in marching band in high school to begin with--and he used it in marching band to start with--but then he wanted me to play timpani and then glockenspiel. So that was okay. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1715.87606,1771.54047"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e MB: That was the high school band? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1771.54047,1775.29517"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: Ames High. One of the percussionists in the Ames High Concert Band that taught me timpani. No director ever did. It was just this fellow band member. When he told me that for concert band I wasn't going to play accordion, he said, “Would you like to play timpani?” I said, “I don't even know what it is.” “I'll show you.” He took me back in the corner. “I thought these were called kettledrums.” “Well, that's the old name for them.” So, I didn't know any more about it than that. But I fell in love with them, and that's what I've been playing. Well, I did have a hiatus for fifty-two years without any band because my husband objected to my being in bands, but when he went into the nursing home, it only took me two days to get back in a band. But I went in as a timpanist. And bell players when they needed them, but I never marched again—there! I march in Alumni Band every year up until about, what, three years ago? Four years ago? No, because--COVID was in there. Anyway, lately. [laughs]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1775.29517,1864.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. Did you pass any advice on to incoming band members, like when you were a junior or senior? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1864.0,1874.93023"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: No. I had retired now from concert bands, and the person who is taking my place, I'm teaching her, she's been taking timpani lessons from me for about two or three years. So that she's going to take over now--or will. I retired first of June, and I won't be teaching adult education anymore, nor will I be playing in any bands anymore. Time to hang up the fun. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1874.93023,1913.29658"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e MB: Time to give up the mallet. LL: Huh? MB: Give up the mallet, the hammer, or whatever. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1913.29658,1923.02326"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: I donated my glockenspiel, mallet, and the holster to Iowa State last night. And I told the director, I said, “Even though they play the horizontal bells now, over the years, there have been Alumni Band members who have played glockenspiel that might want to play again, and now you have one for them to play.” And I found one last night that did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1923.02326,1958.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e Good. So, what did the marching band mean to you while you were a student? LL: A thrill. It was just a thrill. Just loved it. It’s just fun. I don't like to just listen to music, I like to be playing it. And when you march into the football stadium, through all of those tailgaters and everybody's clapping and you're playing, and I am in my seventh heaven, I just am thrilled. I get home, my son was home from college and--he was at the Air Force Academy, he had a break--I walked in the living room, and he was there and I said, “I just put my glock [glockenspiel] on--I’m just thrilled to pieces!” I was still just as happy when I got home as I was marching. It was just glorious. I loved it. And it bothers me that I can't do it, but on the other hand, I know I can’t. It bothers me, I can't do a lot of things, but, you know, you just can't do it forever, unfortunately.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=1958.0,2052.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e So that thrill's stayed with you even when you were in the Alumni Band? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2052.0,2058.5625"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: Oh, through my Alumni Band. Yes, that was it. All through Alumni Band. All the time we were marching to the stadium, that was--all my thrills has been Alumni Band. In high school it was just--and college--it was just part of the game. But Alumni Band is a thrill.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2058.5625,2080.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. So, when did the Alumni Band begin? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2080.0,2085.17021"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: Nineteen eighty. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2085.17021,2087.40917"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e MB: And you were involved--you said you went to the first one? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2087.40917,2094.48363"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: I’ve been to every one of them since. MB: What-- LL: I'm one of only seven people that have been to every one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2094.48363,2107.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e What roles have you had in the in the Alumni Band? I see that you were past president-- ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2107.0,2114.91667"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: I was president. Well, I guess you were-what did they call it. I didn't know I was going to be president. They asked me if I would be whatever--he had a funny name for it, and I said, “Yes, well, I guess. What do you have to do?” He said, “Oh, not much. Just be there to help if we need you.” So, I thought, Okay. Then the next year, they said, And our new president is Lorna Wilhelm. I thought, Well, Livingston. And I said, “How come?” “Well, that's what that leads to.” “You didn't tell me that.” But then I got it from Bill Reinhardt [William Reinhardt, Civil Engineering (1944-1948)], and then I passed it on to LaVonne [LaVonne (Salton) Anderson, Psychology (1973-1977)].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2114.91667,2167.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e How has the Alumni Band changed since 1980? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2167.0,2172.35714"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: Certainly, got larger! MB: Yes, it was a very large group at lunch today. LL: Yes, well, at one time, we had over three hundred on the field. And I was real, very, happy to see Roger Cichy [Marching Band Director (1986-1995)] this time he was--Mr. Christensen [Joseph Christensen, Director of Bands (1980-1998)] was probably the best band director that we had up until--well, the only one I had for marching band that I had, and anything was better than Edgar, in my opinion, because it was his personality that bothered me. But Joe Christensen was a wonderful guy, and he was nationally famous as well, and died very unexpectedly. But Roger Cichy was also one of the directors with Joe Christiansen, and he left Iowa State not long after Joe died. Because he wanted to be a full-time composer, which is what he did. And I hadn't seen him. Now he came last night, he came today! And I was so surprised to see him. And I said, “What brought you here?” He said, “A band reunion.” [laughs] So, he had some desire to come back again, and fortunately, I was able to come, and I got to see him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2172.35714,2292.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e So thinking back to when you were a student, did the marching band at that time have any traditions? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2292.0,2300.75"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: Have what? MB: Any traditions, any rituals it would do like before games, or after, or anything like that? LL: Not particularly. We just marched on the field and then did our halftime performance. But then—yes, we didn't do what Alumni Band, you know, has a roving band [band that moves around the bleachers in the stadium], third quarter--I don't know if they do that anymore or not, but I was in roving band for a long, long, time. And, and that was Alumni Band, and that was that Iowa State. In high school, we didn't rove between quarters. We did our halftime performance and that was all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2300.75,2348.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e So, when you were a student, you would have been playing in the old stadium [Clyde Williams Field] by Friley Hall, right? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2348.0,2356.97561"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: Yes. MB: And, of course, in the Alumni Band, you play at Jack Trice. LL: Right, here. Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2356.97561,2364.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e How is it different? [talking over each other] ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2364.0,2368.625"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: We were over there at the old gym [Old State Gym] when the bobby pins happened [referring to event mentioned earlier in transcript, timestamp 00:10:48]. And, of course, that was during the war and after. And of course, then all the years in between, that's when--fifty-two years, I didn't have a mallet in my hand-- well, in between, everything moved to over here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2368.625,2401.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e How did the experience of playing in the stadium change after Jack Trice was built? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2401.0,2435.13333"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: I didn't feel much different. Still, you're moving on, marching onto a football field.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2435.13333,2465.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, since you've talked about being one of the only women in the band and being unwanted as a woman in the band, and Edgar’s--I forget his last name [last name Edgar, first name Alvin]--Edgar's personality and his general attitude toward women, I think-- ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2465.0,2485.93023"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: I have to say, his daughter Joyce, who was a year younger than I, played trumpet. But Margaret, who was three years younger, played violin. Well, guess which was his favorite daughter. MB: The violinist. LL: I won't go any further.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2485.93023,2505.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e So, I think, you know, someone might hear you talk about this experience and think of you as a feminist, is that how you think of yourself? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2505.0,2518.78852"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: But, you know, I didn't-- MB: Like was that in your head at this time? LL: Yes, because I remember at that time, you know, we played basketball, but the girls could only play in half the court. MB: Yes, it was still like three-on-three. LL: You had your defense here and the offense there. And, Ames High never played other schools, and other schools in town, they had a boys basketball tournament and a girls basketball tournament. I said, “Why doesn’t Ames High get to?” And I never knew the answer why, but it was little towns, Strawberry Point [Iowa] or whatever, that would play in a tournament. Small schools, but for some reason, Ames High never did. I never knew why. But I never considered myself as a feminist. I just felt like we were deprived of having the opportunities that I felt we should have. But I never did anything to find it. The bobby pin story was not to be a feminist, it was just to show that's not true. It wasn't because I was trying to start anything, and yet that was the way it ended up. MB: Being a historian myself, it's one of the things I have to remember as I'm reading documents, and that sort of thing, is thinking about what the person wanted to do when they wrote this down as opposed to what ended up happening. So, I thought I would ask because sometimes, things take on a life of their own or get carried away. LL: You don't have the intention of doing anything that ends up being--and sometimes are interpreted entirely wrong for the wrong reasons, which sometimes leads negatively. Maybe sometimes positively. I would say that the bobby pins story ended up positively, even though I didn't have that intention.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2518.78852,2668.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e Is there anything else you would like to talk about today? Is there is there any question I should have asked you but didn't? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2668.0,2679.02941"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLL:\u003c/strong\u003e LL: I don't think I know, what would the answer would be? I haven't thought about it. I didn't even know what you're going to talk to me about. MB: Yes, I guess we were a little unclear on it. LL: I get so much about my dad that to have anything about me, who was not famous, and he was, I think, Why do they want to talk to me? It must be more questions about Dad, than me, because I'm not--I haven't done anything different. I've had, now where I'm at this end, I've had three different programs that were in my honors. I never where I never knew about any of them until after it happened. It was all a surprise to me. “Be sure you come. Be sure to come.” “Well, yes. Maybe,” is my attitude. And, in fact, that it even happened last May. I got-- probably a month ahead of time, probably in April some time--I got an ad, you might say, from Iowa State that there was going to be a get together for Iowa State graduates that live in Minnesota, and it was going to be at some place. I looked it up as downtown Minneapolis. I thought, I'm not interested. But I did put it in my calendar book for that day. Then, about maybe a week ahead, we got an e-mail then reminding us to sign up or register, and I looked up where it was, and I thought, downtown Minneapolis, no. I still had no intention of going. Well to make a long story short--with me with no intention of going--I got a call that morning from Iowa State saying, “We have made the reservation for you for tonight.” I hadn't even planned to go, so I had to quick get myself clothes lined up, and get my hair done, and figure out how I was going to get there. And it turned out--I drove--if I got up on Hennepin, I could get down there across the river, was one block. It ended up being all construction downtown, all one-ways, the wrong one-way. Took me an hour to do what could have taken me twenty-five minutes. I get to a half a block from where this new building is that they're having this event, and it's blocked off. I went around the block, I couldn't get in. I sat there for a while contemplating, What am I supposed to do? A pedestrian went by, I said, “I'm supposed to go to a meeting down there, and I can't even get in!” They said, “Oh, move them, that's for flooding further on down.” So, I drove in. Welcome Iowa State – complimentary valet parking. And I went in, and I plopped down in a place close to the podium so I could hear good. Eventually, President Wendy [Wendy Wintersteen, 16th president of Iowa State) walked in. I had met her before, so she knew who I was--primarily as Dad’s daughter--and we were chatting. Then she went over and got the woman who was head of Textiles and Clothing and brought her over, and introduced her to her. Then she got the gal that was the MC that day, brought her over, introduced me to her. Then she brought a fellow from the Minneapolis Foundation and introduced them. I already knew him. I go, “What are you bringing all these people over here for?” I didn’t know why was she bringing all these people to introduce to me! And it wasn't until Wendy got up to speak, and she said, “You know, our subject today was—\" what, innovating, inventions, or whatever it was. Says, “You all know--whatever the name was--therefore, you are familiar with Harley Wilhelm, and thank you, Lorna, for coming today, his daughter.” That's why they had me there and I didn't know until that minute why I was there! See it's not me, usually.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2679.02941,2968.0"},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMB:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Well, thank you for sitting down with me, telling me all of this. It's really great to hear it and to be able to record it and make it available for other people as well. LL: Well, to think that you're doing something for me is amazing to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527#t=2968.0,2998.0"}]},{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://iastate.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3021/collection_resources/137276/file/254527/transcript/72065/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/072/065/original/transcript_1730502010.vtt20241101-754195-n92yh.vtt20241101-754195-n92yh?1730502010","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/072/065/original/transcript_1730502010.vtt20241101-754195-n92yh.vtt20241101-754195-n92yh?1730502010"}]}]}]}